Oppo, help me convince my mom not to pay the Tacoma Tax

"If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent" (essextee) 04/24/2019 at 23:10 • Filed to: None

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Now that the kids are mostly out of the house my mom wants to mothball the Sienna and pick up a midsize 4dr pickup as a DD. She is a die-hard Toyota person though and has decided on a Tacoma without even considering the options. I want to get her to open her mind a bit. We’d be looking at used previous-gen trucks, so there’s plenty to choose from:

Chevy Colorado

Handsome boi

Atlas engines are supposed to be great

Chevy parts prices are a plus

How are these on long term build quality though?

Tacoma

Proven, dependable

She’s in great standing with her Toyota dealer and can likely get a good deal.

Still $$$ even with a good deal, these hold value way too well.

Ridgeline

Everyone (all two of them!) I’ve known that has had one loved it

Honda reliability

Questionable styling

Possibly a bit bigger than she needs

Not a ton of them out there

Explorer Sport-Trac

More of an SUV with a truck bed than an extended cab truck, which I think would work for her

Good-looking

Same issues as the Ridgeline, a little too big and not many out there

Frontier:

This is the one I want to coax her into. You can get one just as capable and dependable as a Tacoma for significantly less $$$, or even get a much newer Frontier than whatever Tacoma she could afford would be.

She’s trying to buy a house and she’s looking for a property that will allow her to keep chickens and goats so a pickup is a must. She needs the extended cab for my two remaining siblings at home, and the minivan would be kept as a backup or for the occasional road trip when we’re all together.

The hard part really will be convincing her to look at other things in the first place. It’s not so much loyalty to Toyota so much as just sticking to what she knows. I don’t have a problem with that, or with her getting a Taco, but it would bother me to have her potentially be spending a lot more money on a second-hand car than she really needs to.

To that end I’d like to be able to present her with compelling options. So, Oppo, what comments or experiences do you have with the models I’ve shared above?

(P.S. I’m not even listing the last gen Dakota because eww)

PS9 > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/24/2019 at 23:28

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“ She is a die-hard Toyota person though”

Good luck with that, then. The whole reason people become that way is they know in Toyota they can get something that will just work and won’t hand them any problems. If that's why she's like that, nothing we tell her is going to change anything. If she gets wind of who we REALLY are, it may push her even further away from anything not Toyota. 

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/24/2019 at 23:34

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Why no late model Ranger?

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 04/24/2019 at 23:35

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Did those even have a quad cab? And have you looked at the crash tests for those?

Ssfancyfresh > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/24/2019 at 23:39

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The Colorado is great.  Bought a 2005 Colorado Crew Cab 4x4 new. Kept it 5 years and put 155k miles on it. No major issues.  Great truck

LastFirstMI is my name > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/24/2019 at 23:42

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Why no Mitzubizhi?

Good for hauling camels, I’m sure it could handle goats and younger siblings just as well!

Chariotoflove > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/24/2019 at 23:47

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I understand your position. You should make your case to her. But the counterpoint is that by this point in a persons life, she gets to have what she wants. 

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/24/2019 at 23:53

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NO THANKS

RallyWrench > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 00:03

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Why not a 4.0 V6 extended cab Tundra? Not a full 4 door but they have useful  space with the clamshell rear doors. Great Toyota trucks , less expensive than Tacos, and not full-size.

anyunusedusername > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 00:07

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So I’m 48. I’ve had some version of a toyota pickup as my daily or truck (ie 2nd or third vehicle) since I was 17. Each time I’ve bought a new one (either to me or truly new), I’ve driven the competition and seriously considered them. There’s some quality in toyota trucks for me that just makes the others seem... “meh”.

I did almost two years without one in 2014 where I had a JKUR instead . Well, I loved the Jeep but just don’t have room for a 4th vehicle that isn’t a street rod, wanted the bed . Went back and traded in the JK for a 16" Tacoma. This is the very first version of the truck (again, after thirty years of them) that I am not completely satisfied with.

It may just be my age and the fact that I feel the rough ride far more these days and the noise and that they’re just not smaller trucks any more... or just a culmination of all the niggling little things that never bothered me before. I test drove a tundra recently as I contemplated a change  and while it’s really comfortable, if I’m going huge; it probably won’t be a tundra. I think I’m going to look at the ridgeline again.

I guess the tldr version is, the newer ones ain’t all that from a long time loyal Toyota truck fanboy. Make sure her test drive (if it’s a third gen) is a long one, not a short trip around the dealership.

No matter what she chooses, I hope it makes her happy. Best of luck.

smobgirl > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 00:10

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I have nothing useful to tell you, but I feel like you should know I’ve been looking at Toyota Sienna camper conversions tangentially  because of this post. Help.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 00:19

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You don’t want your mother to buy a vehicle she wants, that also happens to be ubiquitous, reliable, and inexpensive to repair?

... Do you hate your mom?

Shift24 > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 00:27

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Tacoma or Ridgeline (change the radiator if over 150k). Colorado has captive rotors, such a pain to replace and can get expensive. Other than that they were ok. Not great but if you were looking for 4 doors its pretty small in the back seat

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 00:52

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Okay two comments here on GM trucks.

First - the atlas 5 cylinders had issues early on. The warranty coverage for those was extended to a certain mileage coverage. I had a friend whose Colorado fell just within the coverage window so he sold his right after it got fixed. Do with that info as you may.

Secknd piece is that the first generation Ridgeline, while a nice DD from the driver's seat, is inferior to the Chevrolet avalanche in every other way. Including fuel economy on most years. Just something to keep in mind.

D-Rad > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 00:52

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The Toyota tax is only a thing if you never sell it. Also they do go forever. My dad has the 2.7 in his Hilux, it’s a ‘99 and going strong (well my brother blew the rear diff) but the engine is totally fine. It barely rattles and I recently drove it 400kms (return) and it went like a champ. I’ll take it off his hands when he’s done with it. Do not recommend a Nissan, they are made of cardboard. Gearboxes are terrible and they have a little problem with frames snapping (although I think the Tacoma may have had this problem too...)

HammerheadFistpunch > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 01:55

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dude...Tacoma.  The colorado’s are tiny and, V8 versions aside, kinda turds.  The Ridgie is...just don’t.  Explorer sport trac?  cman.  Frontier is okay.  

Longtime Lurker > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 03:03

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Even if you could get her to test drive the others it will likely only reaffirm her choice to stick with  Toyota.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > RallyWrench 04/25/2019 at 05:50

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Too big, streets in town are narrow with undersize parking spaces.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 04/25/2019 at 05:51

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Oh geez, I apologize  for insinuating that the almighty Taco may, in fact, be a rip-off when it comes to value

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Chariotoflove 04/25/2019 at 05:54

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She’s never even driven a Tacoma, she’s just decided  on one arbitrarily. If I announced I was doing something like that here I'd get 600 word essays explaining why that was wrong of me 

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 07:07

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That body-style Colorado are great little trucks.

We had one years ago. It was a 2004. I added 31" ATs, that was the only thing we did to that truck in 3+yrs of ownership, and it regularly got abused hard off-road.

I think it had 60k when we got it, 180k miles on it when we sold it, so it made 120k miles with zero issues. It averaged 24 mpg in mixed driving.

My only complaint ( which doesn’t actually bother me, it’s a truck after-all ) is it rode kinda harsh thanks to the Z71 package, the 31s actually helped soften it up some.

You could also add the case of our 2012 Corolla that was the absolute biggest shit can we’ve ever owned. 

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 07:58

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Chevy Colorado

Handsome boi

Atlas engines are supposed to be great

Chevy parts prices are a plus

How are these on long term build quality though?

- Yes.

- Go for the later versions if possible. The early engines had teething troubles ( head issues) . Not sure if that applied to the I4's, but the 3.5I5 definitely had issues. The 3.7I5 that came later I think was OK, but someone who actually had that engine should probably chime in. Plus, ‘09 and newer had upgraded brakes.

- This is largely true, though I dunno about the Atlas since it wasn’t widely used. Also, front brake rotors are captive, which is a pain in the ass. Other than that, there’s not an expensive thing on it, since they have less equipment than a cave and it got strictly mechanical upgrades once over a period of 9 years.

- Haven’t had any issues myself, apart from things that have been my own fault (*cough* trans servo *cough*). Squeaks and rattles... yup, got those. But I’m pretty sure those came factory installed. All in all, it looks and sounds like it’s going to fall apart, but so far nothing’s wanted to be the first thing to let go. Granted I don’t have a ton of mileage for a 9 year old truck.

See also 355nation.net

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 08:02

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Narrow you say? Push the Colorado harder

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/cmmj1ujnm0pitztnzxbq.gif

Nibby > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 08:25

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tbh i’d take a taco over all of these

Arrivederci > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 08:58

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Newer gens than what you’re considering, but my FIL just dumped his ‘17 Taco for a ‘19 Colorado.  Said the Taco was underpowered and hunted too much on the highway.

WLM86 > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 08:59

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I used to have a 2007 Frontier Crew Cab Nismo 4x4. I bought it used with low miles. Excellent truck. Very comfortable, decent fuel economy on trips, mine even had a sunroof. I have ALWAYS wanted a Tacoma, but have never bought one because of said “Toyota tax”.

My only gripe with the Frontier was the Playskool plastic interior, BUT it was functional and I did eventually get used to it. My truck had the upgraded Rockford Fosgate sound system which made for some fun road trips at the time.

Long story short, the decision should be between the Frontier and Tacoma, possibly Ridgeline if she can get past their styling. The Colorados in question were very small and their interiors made the Nissans seem fancy!

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 04/25/2019 at 09:14

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Thanks!

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > WLM86 04/25/2019 at 09:18

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She DD'd a 2003 Santa Fe for a few years so I don't think interior quality bothers her.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 04/25/2019 at 09:21

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Our local Eversource branch still has  a few modified Colorados that they use for servicing rural locations and they seem to have held up fantastically.

Discerning > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 09:24

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J ust for reference, I drive a 2018 F150 big boi crew cab standard bed. For the tows (camper).

Do es she just need to haul stuff? If she tows, will it be less than 5000 lbs?

If you answered yes to both of those questions, then my emphatic suggestion is...... the ridgeline.

Th e Ridgeline is honestly the best option for what your mom needs unless she needs to tow a lot (which most of the above can’t do anyway).

The only reason to get any of the others is if she has some sort of plans to do off reading more serious than a fire road - and I would strongly challenge anyone who claims they are doing that enough to base their car around that want.

The r idgeline is the best form of transportation that also happens to be able to haul and tow a little.

The J35 is bullet proof, fuel economy is OK, and the ride beats all of the other options on the pavement.

If I needed to haul and had less need to tow, I would 100% get a ridgeline.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Nibby 04/25/2019 at 09:24

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But a Taco is one of these, so you’re saying you’d rather take a Taco over i tself? Also: mmmm tacos

Discerning > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 04/25/2019 at 09:25

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I think that’s why he posted this  - he’s trying to convince his mom to get something like a Ridgeline after all 

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Discerning 04/25/2019 at 09:26

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It’d mostly just be used for hauling hay  and feed bags.

Nibby > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 09:33

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Discerning > HammerheadFistpunch 04/25/2019 at 09:33

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What’ s wrong with the ridgeline? It can tow and haul plenty, it gets good fuel economy, it is really reliable, and it has a legitimate AWD system (at least more than what 99.999% of people need). The awd is pretty intelligent and even has a locking mode.

Ppeople like to hate on the ridgeline, but it’s actually really capable and drives really well on the road.

This is coming from an F150 owner with a big stupid V8

Discerning > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 09:38

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Ridgeline 100%. Particularly if it will be her only vehicle and if she’s used to driving sedans or cross overs.

The ridgeline has the best road manners of everything you listed. It’s the most comfortable and spacious inside. It even has a decent amount of power. Fuel economy is on par with the others, but she should aim for a 2017 if she can swing it as the fuel economy increased significantly.

L ook into their awd system too. It would take a lot for her to be unable to get unstuck with that system if she’s just driving around her property.

Sseriously, have her at least check it out.

HammerheadFistpunch > Discerning 04/25/2019 at 09:55

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it’s ugly as hell, it doesn’t actually get that good of fuel economy, the awd system requires more frequent service and people are already wearing out the clutches.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 10:04

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I beat the ever loving hell out of ours, it just kept going and never had a failure.

The 3.5L had plenty of power, even for towing. The 4WD was extremely capable. The interior was comfortable without being overly luxurious. The body held up well to WI winters. It got great fuel economy, even with the 31" AT tires.

If we didn’t have 3 kids I would definitely pick up another one.

Discerning > HammerheadFistpunch 04/25/2019 at 10:06

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But the fuel economy is on par with the Tacoma and more importantly it does a better job of being a car than the Tacoma- which is what most people need.

If his mom is more used to sedans and cross overs, then she will enjoy the ridgeline far more than the rough and tumble Tacoma.

She's not doing serious off reading. She doesn't need the cramped and rough Tacoma.

HammerheadFistpunch > Discerning 04/25/2019 at 10:16

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counterpoint: it's not what she wants.

Discerning > HammerheadFistpunch 04/25/2019 at 10:31

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Counter- counter point: it doesn’t sound like she’s looked at it or the Tacoma yet

My fiance wanted a 4runner until she test drove one. I loved it but as I went on and on about all of the good things about the test drive , I got the strong impression that she wasn’t as thrilled.

L ong story short, we drove about 15 vehicles after that and she fell in love with an F150.

I never would have guessed that she would end up in a full size truck and she was almost 100% certain she wanted a 4runner before she test drov e one.

WLM86 > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 10:42

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Frontier should be right up her alley then. I will say that the Frontier has a much more comfortable seating position and I found their 4.0 V6 to be a lot smoother and better sounding than Toyota’s 4.0 V6. At least have her drive both!

HammerheadFistpunch > Discerning 04/25/2019 at 11:19

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The only way to shop for a vehicle with family or near family is to propose vehicles to shop, answer questions and stay out of the way.  The truth is that if they’ve settled on something like like...its not a great idea to try and pry them from it, even if you are right.

vicali > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 11:24

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Choices choices .

Discerning > HammerheadFistpunch 04/25/2019 at 12:08

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Oh for sure they should look at their first choices and take them for a test drive.

If they open themselves up for options or e nquire about what else is out there, then you can move on to the other stuff.

We looked at a whole range of stuff before she saw a Nissan Titan and asked about trucks. I had no clue she liked them and she was the driving force behind checking them out.

If if she hadn't asked about them then we probably would have ended up in a VW Atlas. Ugh

BigBlock440 > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 04/25/2019 at 12:53

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It’s up there, #4.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > vicali 04/25/2019 at 15:19

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Gosh, you lot sure are opinionate d when  it comes to mid-size trucks.

vicali > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 15:33

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Sometimes the easy answer is also the right answer.

To be fair my first car at 16 was an 86 SR5 4x4, kept it for 15 years. Dabbled in vw for a few year before getting back to a 2nd gen 2005 Tacoma - had that for almost 7 years before going to a 2018 3rd Gen.

Colorado is a dud, Ridgeline is not a truck, Frontier is good if you love Nissan- but not if you are going to want every Tacoma you see while driving it.

There is a reason people pay more for Tacomas, and it’s not because we’re all dumb.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > vicali 04/25/2019 at 15:39

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People want Tacomas because they’re told to want Tacomas. It just happens more subtly than an advertisement.

vicali > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 15:53

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I don’t think she can go wrong with a Tacoma, buy it from a dealership and have the frame checked out.

https://overland.kinja.com/tacoma-frame-replacement-success-1697506645?_ga=2.103539144.992708977.1556032818-1747076416.1497050264

PS9 > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 17:02

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No you wouldn't have. No one here hates the Taco. 

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > PS9 04/25/2019 at 17:25

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I meant I would get fla k if I were to just decide on something without shopping around.

PS9 > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 17:44

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That wouldn’t have happened either. Plenty of contextless ‘look I brought a thing!’ posts c ome and go without drama. Jake makes a post like that once every 6 months or something. We don’t give crap to people for the stuff they buy; that’s a  front page  mentality. 

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/25/2019 at 21:16

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How do the tacos hold up in the salt weather on the island ? (though I imagine they don’t salt the roads that much). Or better what is her budget. (i’m assuming by photos used). If interior isn’t important, I might lean frontier. Simple truck, cheap new, so she may be able to pick up a much newer/lower mile used one, than a crazy old/high milage taco.